G'bro Three Tops             (NE Fell Championship) 30-Nov-03
Northern Runner Winter Series 2003-4 Race 4
           
Pos. No.   Name Club time cat/pts/total
1 409   Charles Stead N'land F.R. 59.17 S1/50/50
2 389   Paul Lowe M'bro AC (Man)  60.31 S2/48/98
3 415   Andy Bissell Knavesmire H. 60.42 S3/46/46
4 402   Phil Addyman Claremont RR 63.53 S4/45/95
5 298   Ian Ellmore Scarboro AC 64.04 V1/50/50
6 297   Chris Upson Westerlands C. 64.27 V2/48/48
7 395   Simon Deakin Individual 64.42 S5/44/94
8 379   Paul Figg Quakers AC 65.07 S6/43/133
9 121   Ken Maynard Quakers AC 65.22 V3/46/91
10 252   Paul Kelly Darlington AC 65.41 V4/45/93
11 411   Ian Hodgson M'bro AC (Man)  67.29 S7/42/42
12 255   Barry Atkinson Knavesmire H. 67.46 V5/44/90
13 299   Rob Bailey M'bro AC (Man)  67.55 V6/43/43
14 289   Stuart Backhouse Scarboro AC 68.50 V7/42/87
15 413   Gary Burnip M'bro AC (Man)  70.52 S8/41/41
16 294   Steve Haughton Calder Valley 71.21 V8/41/84
17 383   Hugh Dawick DEFRA 71.37 S9/40/129
18 305   Steve Mummery Acorn AC 72.44 V9/40/40
19 274   Neil Byron DEFRA 72.49 V10/39/77
20 281   John Sage Ilkley H 73.16 V11/38/82
21 15   Caroline Pollard Thirsk & Sow. 73.19* FV1/50/150
22 412   Andrew Minister H'pool Burn Rd 74.10 S10/39/39
23 302   Simon Watson Wednesday AC 74.16 V12/37/37
24 133   John Butler Pickering AC. 74.16 VV1/50/50
25 381   Scott McFarlane Wednesday AC 74.40 S11/38/120
26 405   Chris Clayton Scarboro AC 74.50 S12/37/81
27 260   Dave Robinson M'bro AC (Man)  75.47 V13/36/113
28 401   Keith Laverick Individual 76.12 S13/36/77
29 112   Doug Welsh Wednesday AC 76.20 VV2/48/138
30 250   Steve Honeyman M'bro AC (Man)  76.31 V14/35/101
31 306   Nick Whittingham Penistone FPR 78.06 V15/34/34
32 270   Andy Laing M'bro AC (Man)  78.20 V16/33/69
33 263   Michael Fahey Elvet Striders 78.56 V17/32/69
34 262   Peter Fahey Elvet Striders 78.57 V18/31/95
35 400   Mike Pope Whitby Vampire 78.58 S14/35/78
36 101   Mike Shaw M'bro AC (Man)  79.00 VV3/46/137
37 391   Paul Haydon FRA. 79.49 S15/34/151
38 26   Kate Wiggins Knavesmire H. 80.02 FV2/48/48
39 303   Rob Wilkins Cleve. Tri. 80.09 V19/30/30
40 304   Phil Hall M'bro AC (Man)  80.47 V20/29/29
41 104   John Price CMC 80.48 VV4/45/139
42 131   Gerry Symes Calder Valley 80.56 VV5/44/44
43 283   Trevor Symonds CLOK 82.02 V21/28/56
44 301   John Richardson Individual 82.04 V22/27/27
45 134   Raymond Mogocz Individual 82.23 VV6/43/43
46 63   Martin Overton Tadcaster H. 82.41 VVV1/50/50
47 382   Lee Boothby Wednesday AC 82.42 S16/33/104
48 392   Jim Welch Teesdale AC 82.43 S17/32/75
49 21   Sue Haslam Scarboro AC 84.33 FVV1/50/100
50 1   Cath Worth M'bro AC (Man)  86.08 FVV2/48/96
51 118   Peter Whewell NEVAC 88.03 VV7/42/117
52 108   Dave Parke Scarboro AC 88.56 VV8/41/153
53 24   Julie Clayton Scarboro AC 93.04 F1/50/95
54 135   Barry Moody M'bro AC (Man)  97.16 VV9/40/40
55 64   Peter Duffy Northern Vets. 97.16 VVV2/48/48
56 18   Julie Towse Scarboro AC 99.23 F2/48/96
57 130   Roger Dawson Skyrac 109.39 VV10/39/39
58 132   Danny Gordon Quakers AC 109.49 VV11/38/38
59 129   Phil Bayley Scarboro AC 111.00 VV12/37/37
(End)            
           
           
Teams:   Club pts overall posns  
           
male: 1   M'bro AC (Man)  'A' 41 2,11,13,15  
  2   Scarboro AC 'A' 92 5,14,26,52  
  3   Wednesday AC 'A' 119 23,25,29,47  
  4   M'bro AC (Man)  'B' 121 27,30,32,36  
           
           
female: 1   Scarboro AC  'A' 14 49,53,56  
           
           
N.B. male team points exclude female results and vice-versa  
           
* course record (female)  
   
   
Dave Parry N.E.C.A.A  Hill Running Convenor (01287 660309)
   
Results Rob Pollard 2003  

 

What is the best route back from The Hanging Stone?

In this race runners could choose any route they liked back from The Hanging Stone to the finish, as long as they didn't venture 'out of bounds'. Do the results show which is the best route back from The Hanging Stone? 

Quickest Time
(column 3)
The quickest runner back was Andy Bissell (18:39) who with Paul Lowe dropped down to the main track and took the roadies route back through the woods (as did approx. 50% of all competitors). Paul and Andy took time out of eventual winner Charles Stead who chose to double back to the moor and head back towards Highcliff Nab, along the Cleveland Way (see Charles's comment below).
 
Most positions gained/lost (column 5)
More important than time is race position and the runners who gained the most between The Hanging Stone and the finish were Doug Welsh (29th) , Mike Shaw (36th) and Paul Haydon (37th) who each moved up 4 places. However this is obviously easier to do in the thick of the pack than up at the front.
The biggest losers were John Price (41st) who lost 14 places (see John's comment below!), John Richardson (44th) who lost 8 places and John Sage who lost 7. If you're called John then I would spend more time reccy'ing this race in future! One runner (who shall remain nameless) dropped down from the Hanging Stone then promptly reappeared 4 minutes later to give the other route a try as well! (I've never heard of reccy'ing during a race before).      

The best route? (column 6)
If the best route had been taken by a slow runner then it probably wouldn't have been obvious from the time taken or positions gained so column 3 is an attempt (by me) to see who took the optimum route. It is the time taken to reach The Hanging Stone expressed as a % of the total time taken to complete the race. All things being equal (which they're not of course) then the time taken to reach The Hanging Stone should be a measure of the competitors ability, so if they take a relatively shorter time to get back to the finish, this will produce a higher % value.
The values are very similar but Lee Boothby (70.1%) and Raymond Mogocz (69.7%) were the top scores. Did they find the optimum route back or did they just pace themselves properly? (see comment from Scott McFarlane below).

Phil Bayley (55.7%), Danny Gordon (61.2%) and John Price (63.0%) were the worst scorers. Phil and John dropped down into Hutton Village and followed the bottom track back (I wonder if Danny did too?) so this route is definitely not recommended (despite many orienteerers claiming it should be the quickest route back!). 
Anyone who scored less than the median value of 67.4 % has room for improvement in  their route choice and / or pace judgement.

Conclusion:
The jury is still out as many of the results seem to contradict each other. The only clear fact seems to be don't drop down into Hutton Village and follow the bottom track back - especially if an orienteer recommends it! Some runners lost out by doubling back on themselves and taking the route across the moor, whilst others gained by doing the very same (although route choice back from the Highcliff gate seems to be an important factor in explaining the results) . It's probably more a case of making sure that you pace yourself properly as well as choosing the route that best suits your strengths (fell runners take the high road and roadies take the low road?). The conditions will also play a part - many said they had lost time descending muddy paths in the woods.

It would be far better (statistically) to compare the route each runner took back (column 1), with the rest of the results, but unless everyone tells me their route then there isn't enough information to do that yet, so this is all you're going to get for now! (but please e-mail me your route)

Amen

Comments:

Charles Stead:

"
It was very muddy and slippery on the Moor and the paths in the forest - were the  conditions the cause of the 40+ seconds I lost ? The other thing is, it is a long way back on the forest track but much more fun over the moor! A suggestion for the future is to take runners all the way down from Hanging Stone and up the climb used on the Guisborough Grunt (Green Hill). This would be a good talking point and give the race a bit more climb and would only add 5-10 minutes or so to the winning time ?
"

Scott McFarlane:

"Hi Rob & Others. Thanks very much for Sunday's race. We all very much enjoyed the morning! Lee Boothby 70.1% came home a different way to any other competitor, its our team secret for next year!!! Thanks again. Wednesday's A.C."

John Butler:

"Rob, Very interesting posting on the website. I took the moor route back as this was my first attempt at this race and I knew that this was the least risky route. Having said that I did make a small error dropping down off the moor through the woods to the finish. However I was level with Caroline Pollard at the Hanging Stone (we had been within a few metres of each other for the entire race up to that point). She dropped down to take the woods route and I went back up to the moor. I see from the results that she took more than one minute off me on the way back. Even allowing for my error (and her course record) I was surprised to lose so much against her time."

John Price:

"Bit embarrassing this because I should be able to run round these woods blindfold. In fact if I had done, I'd have probably got back quicker. Suffice to say my route entailed dropping down to Hutton village and then along the bottom tracks. Everyone else seemed to have more sense. I put my route choice down to early exposure to the Russell O'Callaghan School of Navigation and I reckon I deserve more handicap points because of this."



comments welcome

Rob Pollard 2003


 

 

 

 

Hanging Stone to Finish data
                           
      1 2 3   4 5   6    

final

    route H.Stone H.Stone H.Stone posn % time
posn   Name   time to finish posn change to HS
3   Andy Bissell W1 00:42:03 00:18:39 4 +1 69.3%
2   Paul Lowe W1 00:41:42 00:18:49 2 0 68.9%
1   Charles Stead M3 00:39:44 00:19:33 1 0 67.0%
7   Simon Deakin   00:44:30 00:20:12 7 0 68.8%
9   Ken Maynard M2 00:45:00 00:20:22 10 +1 68.8%
5   Ian Ellmore W1 00:43:41 00:20:23 5 0 68.2%
8   Paul Figg M3 00:44:40 00:20:27 8 0 68.6%
6   Chris Upson   00:43:49 00:20:38 6 0 68.0%
10   Paul Kelly M3 00:44:40 00:21:01 9 -1 68.0%
13   Rob Bailey M3 00:46:29 00:21:26 14 +1 68.4%
11   Ian Hodgson M2 00:45:53 00:21:36 12 +1 68.0%
4   Phil Addyman W 00:41:42 00:22:11 3 -1 65.3%
12   Barry Atkinson   00:45:32 00:22:14 11 -1 67.2%
14   Stu. Backhouse M1 00:46:35 00:22:15 15 +1 67.7%
16   Steve Haughton   00:48:32 00:22:49 18 +2 68.0%
17   Hugh Dawick   00:48:32 00:23:05 19 +2 67.8%
21   Caroline Pollard W1 00:50:02 00:23:17 22 +1 68.2%
18   Steve Mummery   00:49:08 00:23:36 21 +3 67.6%
23   Simon Watson   00:50:40 00:23:36 25 +2 68.2%
15   Gary Burnip M3 00:47:10 00:23:42 17 +2 66.6%
19   Neil Byron   00:49:06 00:23:43 20 +1 67.4%
25   Scott McFar'ne   00:50:54 00:23:46 26 +1 68.2%
26   Chris Clayton M1 00:51:04 00:23:46 28 +2 68.2%
29   Doug Welsh   00:52:16 00:24:04 33 +4 68.5%
24   John Butler M1 00:50:02 00:24:14 23 -1 67.4%
47   Lee Boothby S 00:58:00 00:24:42 50 +3 70.1%
28   Keith Laverick   00:51:17 00:24:55 30 +2 67.3%
36   Mike Shaw W 00:54:03 00:24:57 40 +4 68.4%
45   Ray. Mogocz   00:57:23 00:25:00 46 +1 69.7%
27   Dave Robinson   00:50:40 00:25:07 24 -3 66.9%
43   Trevor Symonds M2 00:56:47 00:25:15 44 +1 69.2%
46   Martin Overton M2 00:57:23 00:25:18 45 -1 69.4%
48   Jim Welch   00:57:23 00:25:20 47 -1 69.4%
30   Steve Honey'n   00:51:04 00:25:27 29 -1 66.7%
42   Gerry Symes   00:55:20 00:25:36 43 +1 68.4%
37   Paul Haydon   00:54:05 00:25:44 41 +4 67.8%
39   Rob Wilkins W 00:54:23 00:25:46 42 +3 67.9%
35   Mike Pope   00:53:06 00:25:52 37 +2 67.2%
33   Michael Fahey   00:52:42 00:26:14 35 +2 66.8%
34   Peter Fahey   00:52:32 00:26:25 34 0 66.5%
31   Nick Whitt'ham   00:51:36 00:26:30 32 +1 66.1%
38   Kate Wiggins   00:53:31 00:26:31 38 0 66.9%
49   Sue Haslam W1 00:58:00 00:26:33 49 0 68.6%
32   Andy Laing M 00:51:36 00:26:44 31 -1 65.9%
22   Andrew Minister   00:47:02 00:27:08 16 -6 63.4%
20   John Sage M 00:46:07 00:27:09 13 -7 62.9%
40   Phil Hall M1 00:53:37 00:27:10 39 -1 66.4%
50   Cath Worth M2 00:57:35 00:28:33 48 -2 66.9%
44   John Rich'son   00:52:53 00:29:11 36 -8 64.4%
52   Dave Parke M1 00:59:34 00:29:22 52 0 67.0%
51   Peter Whewell   00:58:35 00:29:28 51 0 66.5%
41   John Price W2 00:50:54 00:29:54 27 -14 63.0%
53   Julie Clayton M1 01:02:28 00:30:36 54 +1 67.1%
55   Peter Duffy   01:04:10 00:33:06 57 +2 66.0%
54   Barry Moody   01:04:07 00:33:09 56 +2 65.9%
56   Julie Towse M1 01:03:55 00:35:28 55 -1 64.3%
57   Roger Dawson   01:10:42 00:38:57 59 +2 64.5%
58   Danny Gordon   01:07:15 00:42:34 58 0 61.2%
59   Phil Bayley W2 01:01:47 00:49:13 53 -6 55.7%

 

Key:
1) Rough route from The Hanging Stone:
          M=climbed back up to the moor edge - exact route not known
          M1=back up to the moor edge then towards Highcliff gate and retraced route
          M2=back up to the moor edge then down 'badger track' to main forest track
          M3=back up to the moor edge then towards next gate after Highcliff gate
          W=dropped down into the woods - exact route not known
          W1=dropped down into the woods - then followed main track back
          W2=dropped down into the woods then via bottom (railway?) track
          S=secret route - different to everyone else!?

2) Time taken to reach Hanging Stone

3) Time taken to get from The Hanging Stone to the finish

4) Race position at The Hanging Stone

5) Change in race position between The Hanging Stone and the Finish

6) % of total race time taken to reach The Hanging Stone. A higher value implies a better route back to the finish (or better pace judgement).

 

Amendments:

02/12/03   routes added where known
02/12/03   comment from Charles Stead
04/12/03   more comments and routes added
06/12/03   more routes added + new route variation
14/12/03   comment from John Price

Rob Pollard 2003